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No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
8/13/2020 4:25 pm
Since this rule does not take effect until 1991, we have time to discuss possible loopholes to the rule and address them now.

I'm thinking we may need to limit the number of times a player can switch positions...follow me here.

One could conceivably get around the rule by switching a CB to RB just before game time, making him an actual RB in accordance with the rule. Then immediately after the game, switch him back to CB so as to avoid the weight gain and keep his speed intact.

Maybe we can amend the rule to allow one offense to defense switch per season, per team. Meaning if that player has already been switched, then is subsequently traded or cut, his new team would have the option to switch him back in the same season.

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By Mcarovil
8/13/2020 4:46 pm
If an owner feels the need to do all that then I suggest that owner be removed
Last edited at 8/13/2020 4:46 pm

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By jayusmc84
8/13/2020 5:25 pm
I agree with Mcarovil.

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By setherick
8/13/2020 6:32 pm
I'm willing to have this discussion as long as it is productive and not finger pointy, which the discussion has always devolved to when I've seriously tried to have this discussion.

The dirty little secret about SP vs SP in MFN is that it's not actually about the SP of the player, it's about the player's physical weight.

The reason that WRs do better at RB, even accounting for equal SP, is that WRs will inherently accelerate faster than the RB because they are 20 pounds lighter. The AC score is not normalized by weight -- the max AC has just been adjusted to show the actual max value a player can achieve.

An 80 AC DE will always accelerate slower than an 80 AC WLB -- hence the McKeon effect -- and an 80 AC WLB will always accelerate slower than an 80 AC CB. All the AC means here is how fast per position the player will get their weight moving compared to other players that weigh the same weight. (Confusing right?)

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
8/13/2020 6:40 pm
setherick wrote:
I'm willing to have this discussion as long as it is productive and not finger pointy, which the discussion has always devolved to when I've seriously tried to have this discussion.

The dirty little secret about SP vs SP in MFN is that it's not actually about the SP of the player, it's about the player's physical weight.

The reason that WRs do better at RB, even accounting for equal SP, is that WRs will inherently accelerate faster than the RB because they are 20 pounds lighter. The AC score is not normalized by weight -- the max AC has just been adjusted to show the actual max value a player can achieve.

An 80 AC DE will always accelerate slower than an 80 AC WLB -- hence the McKeon effect -- and an 80 AC WLB will always accelerate slower than an 80 AC CB. All the AC means here is how fast per position the player will get their weight moving compared to other players that weigh the same weight. (Confusing right?)


This should probably be it's own thread, as I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear more about this. I'm just unsure how this ties into the rule for 1991.

What I'm looking for in this thread, is do I have the rule correct, or does it need clarification in any way? Is there a loophole I can't see that needs to be closed?

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By setherick
8/13/2020 8:26 pm
Basically, any player that plays in a position where is lighter weight than the ideal average will have an advantage over any other player at that position.

Some common switches that I like to use for this reason:

All LBs at WLB, all DBs at CB - The difference between WLB and MLB is 8 pounds. That's only 1 point of SP, but noticeable in terms of AC. Same with DBs. You wouldn't think that the 12-13# difference between CB and SS would matter, but it does...oh it does.

WRs at RB - The classic. The acceleration difference between 217# and 197# is very noticeable. 197# gets to the line faster than 217# every time.

FBs at RB - Same with above. There is a huge difference between 243# at FB and 217# at RB. Everyone associates this with the gain of 3-4 SP, which helps, but it's also the acceleration of the player that allows him to get past LBs on wheel routes and not get blown up in blocking. I have had 77 SP 217# FBs that are absolute monsters in FB passing games.

As I said in the other thread, AC to my knowledge was never normalized for weight. That means that you can't assume the number on the card is the player's AC. How SP _used_ to work, and I'm sure how AC _still_ works, is that the number listed is for the weight class.

For example, it used to be that all players could reach 100 SP. (This was way, way, way back in the 3.x - 3.8 days [I don't remember the exact versions.]) But then your DT would chase down a WR 50 yards downfield (hilariously true).

So JDB introduced weight into the equation, but didn't change the numbers. That meant a 100 SP DT was the fastest DT you could have at 300 pounds. Now, the numbers don't go up to 100, but the idea is the same. The 89 AC WLB is the fastest accelerating WLB you can get, but he's still slower at accelerating as an 89 AC RB.

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By Smirt211
8/14/2020 6:55 am
I'll make declarations (don't limit the #) before Preseason Game #1; you could even have it be set in stone at the Regular Season Game #1 sim.

It's simple. GM looks at a player and decides which way. RB usage or CB usage and declares him before the official line in the sand.

No more switching. Everyone's happy. (Oh and obviously this goes on a season by season basis; you're not declaring the player one way or the other....forever.)

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
8/14/2020 11:23 am
Smirt211 wrote:
I'll make declarations (don't limit the #) before Preseason Game #1; you could even have it be set in stone at the Regular Season Game #1 sim.

It's simple. GM looks at a player and decides which way. RB usage or CB usage and declares him before the official line in the sand.

No more switching. Everyone's happy. (Oh and obviously this goes on a season by season basis; you're not declaring the player one way or the other....forever.)


I'm fine with one change per season...but what if that player is traded? Should the new owner have to wait to switch, or could he do it right away?

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By Smirt211
8/14/2020 12:36 pm
One change per player per season? Love it.

Yeah, you have to play this right. Trades can occur up to Week 8's game so what you do is once Regular Season Game #1 has played....a team who acquires a player gets him with a purpose. He'll know what he wants to do, therefore, he has before the next game to declare and make the switch. Usually we impetus a trade to make a move immediately. Off-season he'd have time to look around and decide. In-season you trade into something with a purpose.

Re: No 2 way player rule needs discussion please

By Mcarovil
8/16/2020 9:48 pm
I remember when MFN wasn’t so complicated. What changed?