The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By Gustoon
1/31/2016 3:38 am
Mr.Krazy wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
This will be the next area of focus on the game engine once the new interface goes live.


Thank you very much JDB, you truly are the man

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By Coach Pappy
1/31/2016 10:23 am
I would think the first step is to see if there is a play that is blowing up the AI. Some teams are getting a ton of sacks and I wonder if they have found a play that will just result in a sack the majority of the time

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By setherick
1/31/2016 10:32 am
I don't think it's a singular play, and I don't think the sack numbers are ALL on offensive line play.

The sack problems seem to boil down to these three interdependent issues:

1) The OL does not always hold a block long enough. Not sure if this is an OL problem or a management problem because...
2)...QBs take a long time to make a decision. They miss open underneath routes because they take too long to go through their progressions. Since you can't expect the OL to hold a block for 5 seconds, by the time most QBs have made their reads and decided to throw the OL block is breaking down...
3)...and QBs are forced out of the pocket. Plays where a QB is forced out of the pocket will result in a sack 90% of the time because...
3.a) QBs do not scramble upfield and...
3.b) QBs do not throw the ball away fast enough.

The root cause of the problem seems to be how slow it takes QBs to make their reads and throw. A problem that is compounded and frustrated by the fact they miss so many open WRs despite taking 5-10 seconds to decide when to throw. And when they don't throw and decide to scramble, then they don't run upfield which shuts down drives and inflates sack numbers.

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By coachcbjii
1/31/2016 12:34 pm
I will say individual player sacks are way high as a league. I think our leagues top five sack leaders all have over 30 sacks....

But I will say this is comes down to a lot things that makes that happen. My team has only one linemen ranked in the 90's. We lead the league in pass attempts and completions every season, but we have never given up more than 20 sacks in a season. EVER!

Your QB's ability is just as important as the OL. Scrambling ability (scramble to throw not run). Feeling pressure in the pocket, and smart of enough to know when to throw it away. My QB intangibles are different than most teams, but I believe it really helps me keep the sacks down.

I had a back up in for two games and he got sacks more in two games then my starter did in the other 14. Because he does not have the proper make up to avoid sacks.

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By sealbc
1/31/2016 12:40 pm
jd when you changed the passing completions of qb throwing for 20 yds or more on plays.Which we said was happening too frequent.Did this change effect the pass blocking after the adjustment?I am now wondering if the pass blocking gets fixed from sacks.If we will end up with more completions of 20 yd plays again.

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By setherick
1/31/2016 12:43 pm
coachcbjii wrote:

Your QB's ability is just as important as the OL. Scrambling ability (scramble to throw not run). Feeling pressure in the pocket, and smart of enough to know when to throw it away. My QB intangibles are different than most teams, but I believe it really helps me keep the sacks down.

I had a back up in for two games and he got sacks more in two games then my starter did in the other 14. Because he does not have the proper make up to avoid sacks.


What attributes do you see reducing sacks? I've started to value AC and scramble as much as FOV.

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/31/2016 2:16 pm
I'd also be curious to know what kind of short/medium/long pass play combinations you all are using and their effect on the sack amount. For example, I would expect more sacks if you do a larger number of long passes and fewer if you do shorter passes. Obviously for long passes the ab has to wait for the long route to complete before going on to his second read, (I'll study this more myself but am curious about your anecdotal experience.)

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By setherick
1/31/2016 2:25 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Obviously for long passes the ab has to wait for the long route to complete before going on to his second read, (I'll study this more myself but am curious about your anecdotal experience.)


I'm confused by this. Does the QB only make one read at a time? If so, this would explain why the QB misses all of the underneath routes on long or medium passing plays. I would expect that the QB would be reading the coverage (safety and LB coverage specifically). If the safety drops, then the QB should be looking for the intermediate routes. If the LBs are zone, then the QB should be looking at the underneath routes. If the QB is reading only one route at a time, that would explain the tendency to hold the ball and then scramble for a sack on medium and long passing plays.

The easiest way I could think to make it work programmatically would be to split the field into three zones - long, intermediate, short. The QB checks to see if a WR has reached the long zone, if not checks the intermediate zone for open WRs, if not checks the short zone. Then cycle back through.
Last edited at 1/31/2016 2:29 pm

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/31/2016 2:32 pm
Right now the QB might check down to a short route on a long pass play if he reads a blitz or gets under pressure, but if a long pass play is called that is the first priority - so yes, he waits for his #1 option before checking to his next options.

Re: Pass Blocking needs improvement

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/31/2016 2:36 pm
setherick wrote:
The easiest way I could think to make it work programmatically would be to split the field into three zones - long, intermediate, short. The QB checks to see if a WR has reached the long zone, if not checks the intermediate zone for open WRs, if not checks the short zone. Then cycle back through.


That's an interesting thought, I will take that into consideration. The question remains, though, how long should the QB stay in the long zone on a long pass? If it's so short then he'll always throw shorter passes.