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Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

Do you feel using an 89 speed 89 acceleration LB as a DE is a game exploit?

Yes
13
No
5

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By setherick
7/01/2020 7:58 am
AlexanDragon wrote:
It's worth noting that it is being used with the same play 40'ish times a game too.


I see nothing in this argument from either a game planning or game play perspective. My defensive game plan isn't designed to call the 46 Heavy every time. It's design to call it against specific formation all games OR against specific formations on key downs OR when leading.

I also think your perspective is skewed because the plays you are most likely to call (and here's a sample) are the ones that I'm most likely to call the 46 Heavy against, especially when I have a lead.

Formation --- OffensivePlay --- Count OffensivePlay --- OffensivePlay/Game

113 --- Shotgun Normal HB Flare --- 52 --- 3.47
122 --- Singleback Big WR Deep --- 33 --- 2.2
122 --- Singleback Big Waggle Post --- 33 --- 2.2
212 --- I Formation Normal FL Hitch --- 68 --- 4.53
212 --- I Formation Twin WR Quick Outs --- 64 --- 4.27
212 --- I Formation Twin WR Hard Slants --- 60 --- 4
212 --- Weak I Normal WR Corner TE Middle --- 58 --- 3.87
212 --- I Formation Normal Max Protect --- 55 --- 3.67
212 --- I Formation Normal HB Blast --- 50 --- 3.33
212 --- Strong I Normal HB Off Tackle Strong --- 42 --- 2.8
212 --- I Formation Normal HB Dive --- 37 --- 2.47
221 --- Strong I Big TE Deep Corner --- 38 --- 2.53

Why shouldn't I call the 46 every down against the 113, 122, and 212 sets against an offensive game plan that is going to call the 6 bolded plays 30+ times per game?

Let's take a minute to acknowledge that that is the real problem folks have with dropping an LB in to the DE and calling the 46. It prevents the draw the coverage and exploit the defense with the running back offense completely. And it largely negates the broken offensive plays like the Hitch.

It can be as effective doing this without an 89/89 SP LB. So it's not like I'm going to stop calling it against those sets. But since I have a 1:1,000,000 generated player, why shouldn't I use him?
Last edited at 7/01/2020 7:58 am

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By Cjfred68
7/01/2020 11:01 am
By that logic


I have an 89 speed/95 acc cornerback....I should be allowed to play him at defensive line as well.

Why put any artificial rules in place?
The game allows it

**** I have a 95 speed/92 acc WR who can play the position also.

Bring back the punt block as well. Establishing artificial rules is wrong. Allow me to do whatever I want.

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By Cjfred68
7/01/2020 12:23 pm
I just wanna know what the rules are???

1. I can play anybody anywhere regardless of position or weight except during punt blocks

OR

2. There is an agreement to only go up or down 1 position regardless of weight.....i.e. DT to DE.....DE to LB.....CB to LB etc....so a 209 pound linebacker can play DE?

OR

3. There is an agreement to only go up or down 1 position with weight limits....if so what are the weight limits.


The playoffs are coming and I need to know what the rules are. From what I can tell...its number 1 and thats what I'm going with until told different. All fair except during punt blocks



Last edited at 7/01/2020 12:29 pm

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
7/01/2020 12:32 pm
raidergreg69 wrote:


*BTW, any new rule won't take effect until next season


I'm just gathering information so I can decide if we'll change the rule for our 1990 season.

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By setherick
7/01/2020 5:17 pm
raidergreg69 wrote:
raidergreg69 wrote:


*BTW, any new rule won't take effect until next season


I'm just gathering information so I can decide if we'll change the rule for our 1990 season.


I would be more accepting and supportive of a everyone must play their assigned position as a global rule.

Cjfred68 wrote:


Bring back the punt block as well. Establishing artificial rules is wrong. Allow me to do whatever I want.


I've been confused on why Fred is the one that is complaining so loudly about this and jumping into all the threads, and so I ran his offensive numbers tonight, filtering on plays that he calls regularly (>= 1 times per game).

Formation OffensivePlay Count OffensivePlay OffensivePlay/Game MedianGained
113 --- Shotgun Normal HB Flare --- 56 --- 3.73 --- 2
113 --- Shotgun Normal FL Slant --- 38 --- 2.53 --- 3
113 --- Singleback Slot Strong HB Checkdown --- 26 --- 1.73 --- 2
113 --- Singleback Slot Strong HB Strong Inside --- 23 --- 1.53 --- 5
203 --- I Formation 3WR HB Inside Weak --- 55 --- 3.67 --- 4
203 --- Shotgun 2 RB 3 WR Shotgun Sweep --- 44 --- 2.93 --- 5.5
203 --- I Formation 3WR PA Fullback Flat --- 38 --- 2.53 --- 0.5
203 --- Shotgun 2 RB 3 WR RB Curls --- 33 --- 2.2 --- 0
203 --- I Formation 3WR Slot Short WR Deep --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 5
212 --- Weak I Normal HB Inside Weak --- 64 --- 4.27 --- 2
212 --- I Formation Normal FL Hitch --- 50 --- 3.33 --- 8
212 --- Split Backs Normal Weak Pitch Sweep --- 46 --- 3.07 --- 3.5
212 --- I Formation Normal HB Dive --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 4
212 --- I Formation Normal PA Fullback Flat --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 2.5
212 --- Weak I Normal Skinny Posts --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 0
212 --- Weak I Normal WR Corner TE Middle --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 2.5

212 --- I Formation Normal Max Protect --- 21 --- 1.4 --- 2
212 --- Weak I Normal HB Inside Strong --- 21 --- 1.4 --- 2
221 --- Weak I Big TE Deep Post --- 59 --- 3.93 --- 6
221 --- Weak I Big WR Post TE Out --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 5

221 --- Weak I Big HB Lead Toss Weak --- 30 --- 2 --- 5
221 --- Weak I Big HB Dive Strong --- 16 --- 1.07 --- 0.5
230 --- Goal Line Normal HB Pitch Weak --- 52 --- 3.47 --- 3
311 --- I Formation Power PA Flats --- 35 --- 2.33 --- 3
311 --- I Formation Power HB Draw --- 20 --- 1.33 --- 0

The ones that stand out the most are the bolded one. These rely on one of the following:

1) Slant routes that break the game with fast receivers with high B&R Avoid. Basically, the WR engages, shucks, and then speeds past the DB.

2) Plays that pull the coverage deep and empty out the flat. Like the Max Protect and Checkdown.

3) Plays that put the RB in space against a slower defender. And for someone that complains a lot about GMs calling Long Passes, calling the Deep Post 4 times a game seems a bit excessive.

So, again, I have no problem moving to using Wells as my DE. But let's not kid ourselves on why people really want this change.
Last edited at 7/01/2020 9:08 pm

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By Infinity on Trial
7/01/2020 9:10 pm
setherick wrote:
raidergreg69 wrote:
raidergreg69 wrote:


*BTW, any new rule won't take effect until next season


I'm just gathering information so I can decide if we'll change the rule for our 1990 season.


I would be more accepting and supportive of a everyone must play their assigned position as a global rule.

Cjfred68 wrote:


Bring back the punt block as well. Establishing artificial rules is wrong. Allow me to do whatever I want.


I've been confused on why Fred is the one that is complaining so loudly about this and jumping into all the threads, and so I ran his offensive numbers tonight, filtering on plays that he calls regularly (>= 1 times per game).

Formation OffensivePlay Count OffensivePlay OffensivePlay/Game MedianGained
113 --- Shotgun Normal HB Flare --- 56 --- 3.73 --- 2
113 --- Shotgun Normal FL Slant --- 38 --- 2.53 --- 3
113 --- Singleback Slot Strong HB Checkdown --- 26 --- 1.73 --- 2
113 --- Singleback Slot Strong HB Strong Inside --- 23 --- 1.53 --- 5
203 --- I Formation 3WR HB Inside Weak --- 55 --- 3.67 --- 4
203 --- Shotgun 2 RB 3 WR Shotgun Sweep --- 44 --- 2.93 --- 5.5
203 --- I Formation 3WR PA Fullback Flat --- 38 --- 2.53 --- 0.5
203 --- Shotgun 2 RB 3 WR RB Curls --- 33 --- 2.2 --- 0
203 --- I Formation 3WR Slot Short WR Deep --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 5
212 --- Weak I Normal HB Inside Weak --- 64 --- 4.27 --- 2
212 --- I Formation Normal FL Hitch --- 50 --- 3.33 --- 8
212 --- Split Backs Normal Weak Pitch Sweep --- 46 --- 3.07 --- 3.5
212 --- I Formation Normal HB Dive --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 4
212 --- I Formation Normal PA Fullback Flat --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 2.5
212 --- Weak I Normal Skinny Posts --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 0
212 --- Weak I Normal WR Corner TE Middle --- 28 --- 1.87 --- 2.5

212 --- I Formation Normal Max Protect --- 21 --- 1.4 --- 2
212 --- Weak I Normal HB Inside Strong --- 21 --- 1.4 --- 2
221 --- Weak I Big TE Deep Post --- 59 --- 3.93 --- 6
221 --- Weak I Big WR Post TE Out --- 31 --- 2.07 --- 5

221 --- Weak I Big HB Lead Toss Weak --- 30 --- 2 --- 5
221 --- Weak I Big HB Dive Strong --- 16 --- 1.07 --- 0.5
230 --- Goal Line Normal HB Pitch Weak --- 52 --- 3.47 --- 3
311 --- I Formation Power PA Flats --- 35 --- 2.33 --- 3
311 --- I Formation Power HB Draw --- 20 --- 1.33 --- 0

The ones that stand out the most are the bolded one. These rely on one of the following:

1) Slant routes that break the game with fast receivers with high B&R Avoid. Basically, the WR engages, shucks, and then speeds past the DB.

2) Plays that pull the coverage deep and empty out the flat. Like the Max Protect and Checkdown.

3) Plays that put the RB in space against a slower defender. And for someone that complains a lot about GMs calling Long Passes, calling the Deep Post 4 times a game seems a bit excessive.

So, again, I have no problem moving to using Wells as my DE. But let's not kid ourselves on why people really want this change.


The obvious solution here is a ban on elite receivers. They should all be converted to TE to ensure they can't beat the defense with speed.

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By setherick
7/01/2020 9:11 pm
Or allow the use of 89/89 speed rushers to disrupt those plays.

The worst plays are the ones where the RB is in space Flare (Medium), Max Protect, Deep Post, where there is no pressure on the QB. Those are for sure 20 yard gains routinely.

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By Infinity on Trial
7/01/2020 9:13 pm
I'd also like to propose a ban on 65 speed CBs with marginal coverage skills because this guy's interception stats are out of this world: https://usflwfl.myfootballnow.com/player/5244

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By setherick
7/01/2020 9:13 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I'd also like to propose a ban on 65 speed CBs with marginal coverage skills because this guy's interception stats are out of this world: https://usflwfl.myfootballnow.com/player/5244


38 pass catching and 29 courage for a DB is insane!

Re: Is McKeon's Sacks an Exploit or Not?

By Infinity on Trial
7/01/2020 9:14 pm
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I'd also like to propose a ban on 65 speed CBs with marginal coverage skills because this guy's interception stats are out of this world: https://usflwfl.myfootballnow.com/player/5244


38 pass catching and 29 courage for a DB is insane!


Cough cough