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Re: How about a real poll

By Smirt211
10/16/2021 1:53 pm
Let me kick this real fast.

v4.2 - all that had to be done was step up that Seth bump and run defender thing to halt a % of the turnstile TDs from the PA and WR Streaks. Still let 'em hit at a lesser rate with poor m2m CBs or tired ones or etc.

Instead over the top passing was ended and we got Checkdown Charlie Brown automatic spray firings to the RB out of the backfield and I've been mad ever since! lol

Re: How about a real poll

By setherick
10/16/2021 4:02 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Let me kick this real fast.

v4.2 - all that had to be done was step up that Seth bump and run defender thing to halt a % of the turnstile TDs from the PA and WR Streaks. Still let 'em hit at a lesser rate with poor m2m CBs or tired ones or etc.

Instead over the top passing was ended and we got Checkdown Charlie Brown automatic spray firings to the RB out of the backfield and I've been mad ever since! lol


That was 4.4 and in beta it work beautifully until long passes got nerfed by the WR drops addition. The WR hand fought the CB until he won and then flew down field. I actually stopped participating in beta when it was changed because I hate the nerf. Period.

In fact, let's just give the full history there. The reason that JDB introduce the downfield catching nerf, and it's the worst addition to the game, was that Ray figured out if you ran all long passes against teams that didn't game plan effectively (because let's face it no one game planned MFN 1 ever) then you could hit a lot of long passes. In a veteran league, this would have NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM because veteran game planners would have loaded up on 90+ SP, 90+ B&R CBs and rode the WR down the field.

Instead, JDB took the unnecessary step to nerf long passes based on bad observational data in a league that wasn't game planning against it. Don't bring me into this. I had nothing to do with it.
Last edited at 10/16/2021 4:49 pm

Re: How about a real poll

By Smirt211
10/16/2021 4:19 pm
Yep, I'm recalling this and arguing on it.

Ray streamed 1 or 2 long passes over the course of an entire game for a season and that was considered breaking the code and needed a fix.

I thought it was ridiculous. No one would run....I remember now - the 212 SE Post all game long as their only play. That's NOT a true game plan.

Re: How about a real poll

By setherick
10/16/2021 4:22 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Yep, I'm recalling this and arguing on it.

Ray streamed 1 or 2 long passes over the course of an entire game for a season and that was considered breaking the code and needed a fix.

I thought it was ridiculous. No one would run....I remember now - the 212 SE Post all game long as their only play. That's NOT a true game plan.


What happened instead was that all of the things that would have prevented the long pass exploit were implemented and the nerf wasn't removed:

* Pass Blocking effectiveness was reduced. To the point that long passes were dangerous in 4.5 even if you didn't want to run them because WRs didn't catch the ball downfield.

* B&R was improved. It's now so strong that it shuts down a lot of offenses by itself.

* Speed went from being linear, which was bad because it was an unfixed linear progression that displayed some crazy gaps, to being parabolic which has its own issues. (Anyone remember when 60-80 speed was basically the same, but 90-100 speed was godly and all other attributes were tied to the player's speed score?)

Re: How about a real poll

By raymattison21
10/16/2021 6:36 pm
VillagerChris wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
GrandadB wrote:
Im going to guess that there are many who have not played 4.6 yet, or "Bleeding Beta" (MFN1), other than in Admiral's leagues, and this is a good thread on the subject, which I highly recommend reviewing before making a final decision on 4.5 vs 4.6
https://moguls.myfootballnow.com/forums/1/890?page=1#3663

When I played my first season with 4.6, I did not like it. But, it grew on me and now I like it equally with 4.5. What I would like to see is more internal game controls, similar to minimum requirements for # of players on a roster, and maximum # of starters. There should be a minimum play selection and minimum use, so you dont get overuse of one or two plays. I'd like to see the coaches do more "coaching", and be more involved in the game. Rules should be eliminated and instead be more based on your coaches style, as per 4th down decisions, conservative vs aggressive. Roster Only is an attempt to do so but it goes to far with respect to owner/manager decisions and influence.


RO is too limited but I guess I like the gameplanning to some extent. Using no rules I can get around 85% of what I want to apply or care to. I consider that the middle game. Maybe 5-10 minutes to set up each game or just do nothing different in terms of the strategy used set depth chart. Coaches do mean little except there play book. I don’t resign so whatever the AI picks is what it is. Sucks when I get stuck with a zone HC.

This bleeds in to my point. Essentially your saying less picking your plays. But it’s the weakness or strength of the play , in the particular version we’re playing, that drives outcomes. 4.5 was this offensive play and that defensive play and what plays work in 4.6 are the similar to 4.5.

Your defensive schemes are stout. 4.5 ..4.6...4. Whatever. A lot of guys have good defensive schemes in 4.6 . Some variety but in general they make the offense produce low stats . I see as 200 yards on the ground is better than 200 yards in the air. For a total of 300 offensive yards. Something like that.

When compared and I point out the playoffs as users who pick the right talent and select the right plays are playing ....the part that your suggesting to limit....... and I say compare playoff qb stats of 4.5 and 4.6 . Or just both in general....as were trying to select the best plays/skills.

https://private-gm-nfl.myfootballnow.com/

Here’s a 4.5 playoffs. Not very good with low amount of pressure

4.6 that same drop in production is not as consistently seen . Yes your defense and others seem consistently good in the playoffs but that same drop is certainly not as drastic. ( in the playoffs) With great minds playing great minds....

but that my main point as the code becomes more accurate to default values (in player weights) the less consistently you will see the specialization of gameplans changing out comes. Thus making more teams competitive.

All the holes of 4.6 this is one reason it is better than 4.5. Specialized mismatched weight discrepancies to gain positive rolls has been curbed. It still matters but to closer to nfl standards.

4.5 is having larger offensive numbers in the regular season only to see them drop near 4.6 numbers (without the pressure) or even worse when top users meet


This is a VERY good point to make. It's 100% true, whenever I play against the 6 or 7 elite players stats are dratically different (down across the board) for both teams.

I just want to point out that if the developer doesn't make changes when changes need to be made it will eventuially get to a point where people are complaining about the same things basically. You can't not change things and let the same code play out 2 years without making any noticable changes. I'm not saying nothing was done but it clearly wasn't enough.


In terms of game code changes I think he has been much more invested in the past. But again judging someone’s investment could be harsh as it is a judgment of ones character .

As some of my friends would say I am like the wind and could/ would blow any where at any time. I thought of it as like going the path of least resistance.

So again were touching personal ground here and I truly think his decision to make less code changes was by demand sources other than the game. Like having a kid and such... life.

Coincidentally it gives more time in beta for true bugs to be found. Not just judging the game play code tweaks. As beta testing is in a box .... you can only try so many schemes ( which we think would have RL equivalents) as a general release sees countless scenarios from many different perspectives trying anything to win.

So slow changes I am ok with now ...imo man Under defensive schemes/ qb wr interactions are light years ahead of the rest of the code. So many real years and versions really just on that section. The others need to catch up but they’ll probably do it slowly ...Or at least in spurts of effort

But man I am a itching for some tweak

Re: How about a real poll

By GrandadB
10/17/2021 10:53 pm
Blondie1977 wrote:
Rules eliminated? What has this sim come to?
'

Maybe some clarification is needed on that, lol. No, rules have not been eliminated. My preference would be for the rules to be handled by the coaching staff, based on their cumulative style and preferences. This is supposed to be a pro football team management game, not a coaching/play-calling game. Its been a long time in the NFL since you had an owner/GM/Head Coach. On the other hand, as the game stands, you can count on the Ai coach and manager to be a lot worse than a human. Also, the trade meter values and player default ratings by the Ai are very bad, which opens the door for unbalanced value trades. Statwise, I'd like to see a Yards per Catch Allowed for pass defenders, instead of yards returned or pick sixes. There's nothing wrong with a 50-60% catch allowed if the avg per catch is less than 4 or 5 yards. That would be a big help in evaluating pass defender performance. Another stat that would be good is Tackle for Loss, in addition to sacks/hurries. Sorry, Im off the particular subject of 4.5 vs 4.6, and the use of rules, but I would prefer a game that provides better stats for player evaluation, coaches that coach, and owner/managers that manage. I'd like to see more variety in play use and selection, and we wont get that in the current game where to compete on a level playing field with most owners, you have to narrow your active play selection in half or lower, and use 2-4 defensive plays over 60% of the calls. That gets pretty old, along with way too many passes to RBs in the flats.

Re: How about a real poll

By raymattison21
10/18/2021 6:26 am
Yeah those 4 plays most likely are non blitz plays which are not penalized. Which means the other team gets a boost to the skill ratings on that play. So, in those scenarios where offensive play counts rise a players skill of 70 man and bump may now be like a 90+ ? Add in a pass key and a 40 skill pass rusher is up to a 75?

I don’t know the exact numbers but all I see Better pressure better coverage. By penalizing those non blitz plays most likely passing will be a bit easier in those scenarios. Running would get more gashed, but blocks could be held for a shorter duration pending skills. . I also would be good with taking the overuse penalties out completely.

Penalize those non blitz, man under / one or two deep plays . Most likely 30 to 40 calls (if not more) through 3 or 4 plays and you will see some more variation. Or make the offense better by taking the overuse penalties in the first place.

I don’t use too many of these plays (maybe on 3rd and long ) only cause of the alignment but some must stop the run enough to warrant the high play calls counts. As I like to blitz and pass defense does suffer at times....