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Re: Poll

By TheAdmiral
9/20/2021 8:57 am
Cjfred68 wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Franchise is a bad example as the AI is calling plays. Based on their settings, which I am guessing, passing should be low. My passing head coach runs it a lot... I guess cause we’re winning. .

Same as a semi active league with elite owners and AI ones as garnering a lot of talent and using the codes effective plays should produce large numbers at times.

But the best of the best in a super active league in a big game should be the real measure for beta testing . Tough to find but admirals leagues are the closest thing and sacks go way down. It’s really just that deep ball to the primary target. We had one guy run 75% flies all championship game .....zero targets and the DB was sub par to say the least .

Even the release of 4.5 had the same effect....guys complaining about getting the wr1 yards. For sure its worse now. At least with those bombs. All that said jdb did say , In the poll thread , something to the tune of “ without any significant changes “ .....so imo if passing was made a bit easier sooner than later with a new minor change I would call for a release of 4.6.

But once again with a minor change that would push at least a dozen above average owners being able to hit 4000 + plus yards and 30 + tds.


I'm just not seeing it in BETA leagues right now....If he can get passing improved then I'm all for a change.

I don't see the issue now, everyone can use 4.5 or BETA so what's the problem...if BETA becomes 4.6 then we have no choice right?

I'm ready for a change if it's better but I'm not changing for change sake is all I'm saying...If JDB believed in BETA then he makes it 4.6 and no questions asked but he is working on the interface and not actively working changes to BETA.

At least now we have options which is fine...he addresses passing and opens it up some more and it's a go!

Just my opinion



In fairness CJ, you are going on hearsay and stats without actually playing in any of my Leagues (not sure about MFN-1, but that league is often filled with inexperienced and/or owners testing the limits of the system).

I'm not saying you'd like the system but you may find it more interesting than throwing the outside slant 30 times a game. Whilst it's hard to get passing yards, there are more plays that are viable. I have an inactive owner in one League (Legends - joined 31st Aug, only League, not been on MFN since 1st Sept) perhaps you'd like to take them over and see for yourself.

*UPDATE: That team is no longer available - if you would like a team, to dip your toe in the pool. Let me know and I'll put you on a wait list*
Last edited at 9/20/2021 11:54 am

Re: Poll

By Smirt211
9/20/2021 9:13 am
Keeping on drafts, though, overall - here they are in a nutshell.

Limited stocking of the difference making positions (DB, WR) and a funneling to choosing a poison pill high volatility option at the pinnacle of the draft since you're not getting the 92 rated overall CB with 6 volatility. Yeah, you can ball hawk the 90-100 high volatility explosions later in the draft due to the structure of vol. rising each round but I don't believe drafts are worth the mental energy and time spent due to the funneling high vol maze traps and a lack of hitting on home run impact players. I trade picks, cut and devote my will power/mental energy elsewhere.

Someone could articulate the hazards/pitfalls of the modern day draft better than I can because I simply have surface analyzed them for years and determined they = a waste of time due to the over-correction. :(
Last edited at 9/20/2021 9:15 am

Re: Poll

By Tomahawk
9/20/2021 10:10 am
Poll = https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6/2275?page=1#12732

is now 7 for 4.6 and 3 for 4.5

Re: Poll

By Cjfred68
9/20/2021 1:50 pm
I'm fine either way. I simple don't play BETA (never have) but appreciate those that do it. If he released 4.6, I make the switch, if not then I continue to use 4.5.

My reasons?!?!

I spend 100's of hours making 2 19 season leagues special especially the XFL. I have ALLPRO and MVP for every season, alltime stats for game, season and career threads, playoff history threads and a detailed 1st round draft history for every teams 1st round picks for every season including trades.

So, I just want a stable version that won't change mid-season because JDB wants to try something. It's that simple to me, I'm going with the devil I know and when 4.6 is released...I switch and new changes go to BETA.

Re: Poll

By setherick
9/20/2021 11:04 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:

I'm not saying you'd like the system but you may find it more interesting than throwing the outside slant 30 times a game. Whilst it's hard to get passing yards, there are more plays that are viable. I have an inactive owner in one League (Legends - joined 31st Aug, only League, not been on MFN since 1st Sept) perhaps you'd like to take them over and see for yourself.


The bolded sentence is just false.

4.6

1) No long passes are effective. (I've shown the stats to prove it.)

2) Medium passes are reduced to 50% effectiveness, and most of the plays that generate yards in 4.5 are sackbait in 4.6.

3) Short passes are all that's really effective, so you end up throwing MORE outside slant routes to try to grind 6 YPC out of your QB since WRs are TOO SLOW off the line and don't make big breaks downfield.

I mean I could pull the actual numbers from leagues, but I don't want to go back and rebuild all the tables in my database. And the only data that I archived was from December, which may have been before the Speed change. In that data set here are the "best" plays in terms of median yards and TD:INT ratios:

113 Quick Outs - 68% - 5:1 TD:INT
113 Flare - 69% - 3:1 TD:INT
212 FL Hitch - 75% - 5:1 TD:INT
203 PA FB Flat - 83% - 1:0 TD:INT

Notice anything? Those are the same plays that are the best / "most overused" plays in 4.5. So the only thing that is different between 4.5 and 4.6 in terms of passing is that you don't have any big plays, and you take a lot more sacks on plays that are otherwise going to go to the RB as a check down anyway.

Point statistically to the plays that are now more viable. The reason that I quit playing BETA wasn't because I didn't know how to win. It was just too boring to take the two-to-three seasons to build up a team.

But I'm to the point where I'm ready for 4.6 to be release. I can't wait for teams that I've already built up to average 10+ sacks a game and hold my opponents to < 100 yards and < 7-10 PPG.

Re: Poll

By raymattison21
9/21/2021 8:04 am
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:

I'm not saying you'd like the system but you may find it more interesting than throwing the outside slant 30 times a game. Whilst it's hard to get passing yards, there are more plays that are viable. I have an inactive owner in one League (Legends - joined 31st Aug, only League, not been on MFN since 1st Sept) perhaps you'd like to take them over and see for yourself.


The bolded sentence is just false.

4.6

1) No long passes are effective. (I've shown the stats to prove it.)

2) Medium passes are reduced to 50% effectiveness, and most of the plays that generate yards in 4.5 are sackbait in 4.6.

3) Short passes are all that's really effective, so you end up throwing MORE outside slant routes to try to grind 6 YPC out of your QB since WRs are TOO SLOW off the line and don't make big breaks downfield.

I mean I could pull the actual numbers from leagues, but I don't want to go back and rebuild all the tables in my database. And the only data that I archived was from December, which may have been before the Speed change. In that data set here are the "best" plays in terms of median yards and TD:INT ratios:

113 Quick Outs - 68% - 5:1 TD:INT
113 Flare - 69% - 3:1 TD:INT
212 FL Hitch - 75% - 5:1 TD:INT
203 PA FB Flat - 83% - 1:0 TD:INT

Notice anything? Those are the same plays that are the best / "most overused" plays in 4.5. So the only thing that is different between 4.5 and 4.6 in terms of passing is that you don't have any big plays, and you take a lot more sacks on plays that are otherwise going to go to the RB as a check down anyway.

Point statistically to the plays that are now more viable. The reason that I quit playing BETA wasn't because I didn't know how to win. It was just too boring to take the two-to-three seasons to build up a team.

But I'm to the point where I'm ready for 4.6 to be release. I can't wait for teams that I've already built up to average 10+ sacks a game and hold my opponents to < 100 yards and < 7-10 PPG.


It’s all how you look at it. I agree with both here. 4.5 has more pass plays that let us say average over 6 ypp. But when compared to the other run and pass plays that are not so effective the ratio is less than less than beta. As the effectiveness is more spread out. And especially when you add in the 46 with a small fast pass rushers.

And beta has only a handful of pass plays that are above 6ypp but it has more available plays are muddled around 4 ypp. So that in one way or another makes the best closer to the worst thus making “ more plays equal in effectiveness “ as the 46 can get beat pretty easily with the right plays. Beta just needs more air yards and YAC...

Re: Poll

By TheAdmiral
9/21/2021 5:27 pm
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:

I'm not saying you'd like the system but you may find it more interesting than throwing the outside slant 30 times a game. Whilst it's hard to get passing yards, there are more plays that are viable. I have an inactive owner in one League (Legends - joined 31st Aug, only League, not been on MFN since 1st Sept) perhaps you'd like to take them over and see for yourself.


The bolded sentence is just false.

4.6

1) No long passes are effective. (I've shown the stats to prove it.)

2) Medium passes are reduced to 50% effectiveness, and most of the plays that generate yards in 4.5 are sackbait in 4.6.

3) Short passes are all that's really effective, so you end up throwing MORE outside slant routes to try to grind 6 YPC out of your QB since WRs are TOO SLOW off the line and don't make big breaks downfield.

I mean I could pull the actual numbers from leagues, but I don't want to go back and rebuild all the tables in my database. And the only data that I archived was from December, which may have been before the Speed change. In that data set here are the "best" plays in terms of median yards and TD:INT ratios:

113 Quick Outs - 68% - 5:1 TD:INT
113 Flare - 69% - 3:1 TD:INT
212 FL Hitch - 75% - 5:1 TD:INT
203 PA FB Flat - 83% - 1:0 TD:INT

Notice anything? Those are the same plays that are the best / "most overused" plays in 4.5. So the only thing that is different between 4.5 and 4.6 in terms of passing is that you don't have any big plays, and you take a lot more sacks on plays that are otherwise going to go to the RB as a check down anyway.

Point statistically to the plays that are now more viable. The reason that I quit playing BETA wasn't because I didn't know how to win. It was just too boring to take the two-to-three seasons to build up a team.

But I'm to the point where I'm ready for 4.6 to be release. I can't wait for teams that I've already built up to average 10+ sacks a game and hold my opponents to < 100 yards and < 7-10 PPG.




A breakdown of every play run by every team in Gameweek 1 of this season in Legends. It's a complete nightmare grabbing all the data and I have not taken into account penalties called on plays.

However for what it's worth

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bK7RCcsSppLiyoiqg3aLj-TEM3BH3hVHXKZEhPolRE0/edit?usp=sharing

As you can see, people still have the comfort blanket of the '4.5' Killer plays, but it's a very wide net, with a lot of plays that are viable for either yards per attempt, yards per completion or both.

In the interests of fairness, I've included all the plays that haven't produced any significant results. It is after all a limited sample, I've included every passing play that was run a minimum of 4 times on tab 2.


This is a stat round up of Gameweek 1


WELCOME TO SEASON XII

Gameweek one, a really tough divisional road trip to Tiger Bay - our shortest road trip of the year. We had to dig deep for this one, only running 49 offensive plays in the game, to give some perspective to that Sabretooth QB, Gerardo Kendall, attempted 50 throws.

We were opportunistic though and forced a lot of turnovers (three interceptions and a fumble), two gave us short field and we were ruthless in the red zone. Fair play to the 'Tooths they're going to be a lot to handle for everyone who has to face them this season (on this evidence). We were the #2 pass defense last season for yards allowed and they found gaps in the coverage all day long.

A tough, tough day for our D but they got through it, we got the win, we move on.



Looking around the League and Greenland made a statement win over Roanoke, top scoring on the day with the biggest winning margin. Alaska upset the Daggers in the Knife Box. Cusco (37) and Baghdad (29) were the next highest scores, whilst Tabasco recorded the only shutout of the week.

Six games were settled by one score, Eskimo QB Chad Burns posted 26 of 32 for 310 with 3 TD's and an INT, Tiger Bay QB Kendall hit 32 of 50 for 284 with 3 INT's in a losing effort. Burns and Cusco QB Carl Shields led the League with 3 TD's each. Veteran Barcelona Bull Landon Hudson threw four interceptions in a one point loss with 15 QB's throwing at least one pick and 26 total on the week.

Rob Gordon (Jeddah) was under fire all day, getting sacked eight times. That alone accounted for 10% of the days 80 sacks, with just five starting QB's keeping their uniform clean (Labradors, Eskimos, Chilli Peppers, Phoenix and Diamonds). Marco Perkins (Bavaria) averaged 12.90 yards per attempt completing 13 of 20 for 258 and a TD as the Barbarbians won in Manaus against the Poison Dart Frogs. That included the longest pass of the day, a 90 yard TD pass to Matthew Nichol https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3488#621809

Eight QB's topped 100 for QB rating, with three posting 120+ (Jason Thompson LUX 122.78, Marco Perkins BAV 125.00 and Chad Burns ESK 125.26). All eight led their teams to victory. Killarney (Shawn Cummings) and Tabasco (Luis Robbins) managed to eek out victories despite rankings sub 40, with Roanoke Settlers Richard Davis making a horror start with a final rating of 24.58 leading to calls for the return of veteran, two time Legend Bowl winning QB Charles 'Chuck' Charles.

Tabasco RB Clifford Ellis ran for 141 yards on opening day with two TD's, opening the scoring with this 65 yard scamper https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3496#623031. Cusco's Robert Greene also went for 100+ (106) whilst Labradors all purpose WR/RB Thomas Bearden also had two TD's to lead the League alongside Ellis.

Bearden was one of four players to lead the League with 20 carries, with all four remarkably getting between 83 and 90 yards on the day #Consistent. On the downside, Bearden was one of four players to fumble the ball twice and that included Jeddah QB Robert Gordon who was eating dirt all day long.

Greenland's Patrick Manley was a constant menace for the Roanoke defence as he hauled in 11 of his 15 targets for 172 yards and a TD. Brian Salazar (ESK) and Matthew Nichol (BAV) also posted 100+ yard days with 111 and 103 yards respectively and both notching a TD. Tiger Bay's Gerald Vega was the most targeted player of the day, with the Sabretooths looking his way 16 times and finding him on 10 occasions for 93 yards.

Amazons TE Thomas Park also had double figure receptions with final figures of 10 catches from 14 looks for 85 yards and a TD. That was not enough to be the leading TE for the day with Cusco Flying Serpent Danny Allen bagging 8 of his 9 looks for 86 yards and a TD. However it was fellow Flying Serpent RB Keith Kurtz who led the League with TD catches (two) as he caught all seven ***** that came his way in a ruthlessly efficient 7 of 7 for 44 and 2 TD's.

Two players finished the day with three dropped passes, Zambezi RB Evan Laplant was particularly hapless catching just two ***** for 14 yards on seven attempts with those three bobbles. El Dorado Gold Nugget Paul McKee was the only WR to make three drops but did at least make more catches than drops drawing in four of eight for 41 yards.

We had two kicks returned for TD's, Montego Bay's Gregory Bosch going 96 yards on what was an otherwise poor day for the Running Back, whilst Thunder Bay RB David Ramos scored the Leagues 33rd 110 yard Kick return TD https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3489#621919 As for Punt returns, Cusco's David Cook and The Nile Crocodiles David Swann had the day's big plays with each having a 26 yard return. Luxor's George Layman was a busy boy returning 8 punts for a League best 69 yards to add to his three kick returns for 89 yards #UnsungHero. Tabasco's Charles Carlisle made the most Punt returns on the day with nine.

Top points scorer on the day was Baghdad Kicker Bob Goldberg as he went a perfect five for five with field goals (including two 50+) with a further 2 of 2 PAT's for 17 points on the day #Reliable. Phoenix kicker Jan Bogart missed two field goals from inside the 40 as Del Fuego lost by six points #DifferenceMaker. Only two missed XP's, coming from Nelson Admiral's Jonathan Wolfe and Las Vegas Conjuror Matthew Brown but both teams went on to win #BulletDodged.

Mumbai SS Anthony Clark led the League in tackles with 15. Edinburgh Royal DE Floyd Winters left his mark on the game, recording five sacks whilst Kimberley Diamonds Jerry Ulloa and Admirals Kelly Foreman were the nearly men as each forced three hurries. Alaska's LB Nathan Heitzman and Haiti Hex SS Joel Strauss both missed five tackles, a rare off day for Strauss but Heitzman's poor tackling was exposed.

Admiral CB Jose Stewart was under fire all day long as Tiger Bay looked to expose any deficiency. He stood up well allowing just 8 of the 17 ***** thrown in his direction (47.1%) and recording four knockdowns (a joint league high with four others). Jeddah CB Charles Thompson had one of those days, allowing all nine catches in his area.

Twenty two players snagged a total of 26 interceptions on the day. They were led by Kimberley Diamonds Nickel Back Thomas Hernandez who got three. Kentucky Stallions Kevin Hudgins had a career day, listed at #4 on the depth chart the veteran allowed a miserly two catches from the ten thrown at him, recording four knockdowns and two interceptions as the career back up equalled his season best tally for INT's #VeteranSavvy. It was much less of a surprise to see Blarney Stones Shady O'Grady grab two interceptions #ShutdownCorner.

Barcelona Bulls back up safety Anthony Morrison provided the only pick six of the week https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3490#622063. It was in fact, his second pick of the first quarter although the first was called back for pass interference #HotStart. Beijing Red Dragons LT struggled to cope with Edinburgh's Floyd Winters all day, allowing five sacks and eight tackles on the day (both League highs). He'll have better days. To further add to his humiliation he was penalised twice along with three other players (two O, two D) to be the most penalised player on the day. #WintersDefensiveMVPCandidate

George Layman's sterling efforts on Special Teams see him lead the League for all purpose yards with 257 for the day total. Just four players had multiple TD's (all with two), three RB's Ellis, Kurtz and Frizzell with Bearden the lone WR. Four Tight Ends and four Full Backs recorded a TD on the day.

Luxor Sphinx led the League in yards from scrimmage with 456, whilst Mumbai Jumbos were the most penalised (8 for 62 yards). Greenland had four rushing TD's, whilst Alaska and Cusco both threw three TD passes. Amazon threw the ball 53 times but Tiger Bay topped the League with 32 completions. The Conjurors hit on 84.6% of passes. Greenland controlled the clock with 49 rushing attempts whilst Barcelona, Tiger Bay and The Nile turned the ball over four times.


Following week one, it's always important to look through the trash as a multitude of players got cut prior to the week one game as rosters got down to the final 53. At first glance there looks to be two excellent Punters on the Waiver wire with several players who could do a job somewhere now available. Happy hunting.



And finally, team stats (power rankings after GW1)

POWER RANKINGS plus Free agent pool/waiver wire cheat sheet and some QB stats.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iWls1ZVLzNlnqbY_gh2OphrV8FfebGKB-EyYTewDzf0/edit?usp=sharing
Last edited at 9/21/2021 5:28 pm

Re: Poll

By setherick
9/21/2021 6:22 pm
7 plays in your spread sheet average > 7 YPA and fewer than 20 average > 5 YPA. And those numbers are including plays with a limited distribution.

If you set the ATT at something reasonable like >= 10, there are 10 total plays that average > 5 YPA. And they are the same plays everyone is running now.

So basically 4.6 is the same offenses getting fewer yards and completing fewer passes?

Thanks for making my point.

Re: Poll

By TheAdmiral
9/21/2021 6:53 pm
setherick wrote:
7 plays in your spread sheet average > 7 YPA and fewer than 20 average > 5 YPA. And those numbers are including plays with a limited distribution.

If you set the ATT at something reasonable like >= 10, there are 10 total plays that average > 5 YPA. And they are the same plays everyone is running now.

So basically 4.6 is the same offenses getting fewer yards and completing fewer passes?

Thanks for making my point.



LOL, you want to keep moving the goalposts that's fine. Strangre that you think a play is only viable if it averages over 10 yards per attempt?


IF you bothered to read what I actually say, I have clearly stated throughout that the passing game needs to be improved - how, when and why is not up to me. You couldn't make things work in BETA, so you walked. That's your choice.

You hide behind stats that you refuse to share. If you're going to make generalised statements, back it up with actual data. Or are you worried that you lose your edge by sharing the information?

Re: Poll

By setherick
9/21/2021 6:59 pm
I'm not moving any of the goal posts. Your stats make the same point that I made above about how you have FEWER plays that are effective.

Personally, average doesn't tell me anything since the stat I care about is MEDIAN. But since soo many plays with > 10 ATTs average < 5 YPA that means for every big play of 10+ yards, there is one of 0.

Sounds epic.

I'll compile data for the best passing teams in Victory and LOL tonight or tomorrow and post it.
Last edited at 9/21/2021 7:01 pm