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Main - Bug Box

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Nicko
11/03/2016 4:33 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Yeah, I do understand the confusion, but the problem is that unless the rules overlap exactly you may have different play sets within one rule. I.e, if you have one rule that covers the entire quarter for any score but an overlapping rule that only applies in the last 2 minutes when your are ahead by 3 or more and the offense comes out in a 5WR set, and a third rule that only applies in the first quarter when you are inside the 20 yard line and losing by at least a touchdown, how would the 'view plays' show for the first rule? Most of the time it would be the only one that fires, but there are other situations that it would have crazy mixes with other rules.

Maybe the solution would be to prioritize rules and the AI stops at the first rule it hits.

I recommend changing this so that each rule is independent from others and if rules overlap, just add the plays(with their respective priority) shown in the "view plays" together when deciding which play to call, not the percentages/personnel.

So for my example above, it wouldn't call the "Man OLB Zone" ever. It would only call the plays shown in the view plays, a 50/50 split between those two plays.

I agree it's way too complicated to try to show overlapping rules in the "view plays" window. So I think rules should be calculated independently, then applied to the gameplan.

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Example: So hypothetically let's say:

-You have a defensive rule that says when the offense is in 21 personnel you call Base 4-3 personnel, 100% 3 deep zone, 100% zone linebackers.
[The view plays button, only shows one play "3 deep zone under"]

-You have another rule(for the same part of the field) that says when the offense is in 21 personnel you call Base 4-3 personnel, 100% man, 100% Blitz 2 linebackers.
[The view plays button, only shows one play "OLB Blitz Outside"]

This would result in 50% of the time you call OLB Blitz Outside and 50% of the time you call 3 deep zone under only.

Instead of "combining" the percentages(of overlapping rules) together to come up with essentially a "new" rule(for that situation), I suggest each rule be calculated on its own.
Then after a rule is "calculated" to come up with its plays and priority(what the view plays window shows) those results are put into a "table", and the play is chosen from that "table".
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Example:
-There's a rule that says 100% 2 deep zone, 100% zone
-There's an overlapping rule that says 100% 1 deep man, 50% man/50% blitz 1

Currently this would "combine" the rules into one calculation of
50% 2 Deep Zone/ 50% 1 Deep Man,
34% Zone/ 33% 1 Deep Man/ 33% Blitz 1


This can pull up all kinds of plays that are not shown in the "view plays" window(like Cover 2 MLB Blitz, or Man strong Zone Weak etc.)

My suggestion is to NOT combine the rules together. When they overlap, instead calculate each rule completely, then combine the results afterward.

So for this example, only 2 deep zone plays would be called that are zone linebacker plays. As well as only 1 deep man plays that are man/blitz 1 linebacker plays could be called. Both rules would still be applied to the situation, but the "pool" of plays they choose from would be very different from the current system.
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Or if this is confusing, an easy fix would be to randomly choose between rules when rules overlap. This is not the best way I see to do it, but it is by far the easiest.

Re: Rules not working properly?

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/03/2016 9:10 pm
Nicko wrote:
Example: So hypothetically let's say:

-You have a defensive rule that says when the offense is in 21 personnel you call Base 4-3 personnel, 100% 3 deep zone, 100% zone linebackers.
[The view plays button, only shows one play "3 deep zone under"]

-You have another rule(for the same part of the field) that says when the offense is in 21 personnel you call Base 4-3 personnel, 100% man, 100% Blitz 2 linebackers.
[The view plays button, only shows one play "OLB Blitz Outside"]

This would result in 50% of the time you call OLB Blitz Outside and 50% of the time you call 3 deep zone under only.

Instead of "combining" the percentages(of overlapping rules) together to come up with essentially a "new" rule(for that situation), I suggest each rule be calculated on its own.
Then after a rule is "calculated" to come up with its plays and priority(what the view plays window shows) those results are put into a "table", and the play is chosen from that "table".


The problem is when two rules overlap, but there are situations that they don't. In your example, let's say rule #1 is only in the first quarter and rule #2 is for the entire game. The overlap only happens in the first quarter in this case, so 2/3 of the time rule #1 doesn't apply, but when it does it results in a completely different play set.

Right now it does what you describe (if I'm following your description) if a rule overlaps, but the 'view plays' only shows the impact of the single rule you are looking at.

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Nicko
11/03/2016 9:23 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:

The problem is when two rules overlap, but there are situations that they don't. In your example, let's say rule #1 is only in the first quarter and rule #2 is for the entire game. The overlap only happens in the first quarter in this case, so 2/3 of the time rule #1 doesn't apply, but when it does it results in a completely different play set.

Right now it does what you describe (if I'm following your description) if a rule overlaps, but the 'view plays' only shows the impact of the single rule you are looking at.

Yes, when the rules don't overlap, they should be applied normally. When rules overlap, is when problems occur.
When they overlap, currently they (for all intents and purposes) combine into a single rule. This results in strange plays being called, that are not in the view plays for any of the active rules.

*Edit: It doesn't do what I describe here at all. By combining rules before calculating them, you change the pool of plays that could be applied to that rule(s).
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Example: I only want "zone" linebacker, "2 deep zone" plays to be called on 4th down(I don't want any other 2 deep zone plays to be called. I don't want any Blitz 1 linebacker plays included). But because I have overlapping rules for 4th down, the pool the game chooses from becomes much different. If my other overlapping rule for 4th down was "man, blitz 1" plays, now the pool the game is looking at includes "2 deep zone, Blitz 1" plays. Which for this example I do not want called. I only want "2 deep zone, zone" plays and "man, blitz 1" plays to be called. I do not want "2 deep zone, blitz 1" plays or "man, zone" plays to be called.
Last edited at 11/03/2016 11:01 pm

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Nicko
11/03/2016 9:26 pm
Combining rules together "before calculating them"" when they overlap is very counter-intuitive. I think they shouldn't be combined this way when they overlap. You could combine the "results" of the rules(this would be very intuitive), but please do not combine the overlapping rules before "slimming down its pool of plays".
Last edited at 11/03/2016 11:04 pm

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Ares
11/03/2016 9:44 pm
For what it's worth, I very much prefer the 'simple' solution of being able to adjust the list of priority rules are engaged, and whichever is first is the one that gets used, ignoring any others that might also otherwise apply to the situation.

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Nicko
11/03/2016 11:11 pm
Ares wrote:
For what it's worth, I very much prefer the 'simple' solution of being able to adjust the list of priority rules are engaged, and whichever is first is the one that gets used, ignoring any others that might also otherwise apply to the situation.

I disagree with this suggestion. This would greatly limit what you can do with your rules.

The way rules overlap now is fine, it's just the way they act when overlapped that's the problem. Not the fact that they overlap, I actually like the way you can overlap different rules from different situations together. I just would like them to be a bit more consistent in what is called, right now the game is calling strange plays from my defensive playbook because when they overlap, the plays the rule will call changes from what my original intentions were.
Last edited at 11/03/2016 11:15 pm

Re: Rules not working properly?

By WarEagle
11/04/2016 10:39 pm
Bryson10 wrote:
Or have the rules be grouped and easier to identify. It gets confusing going through the rules and trying to decipher them all the way they are now


And PLEASE display the rule's name so we don't have to read through every option just to remember what that rule does.

I'd rather just see the rule names than all the individual settings for each rule. If I can see the name (and description would be great), I don't need to see all the options.
Last edited at 11/04/2016 10:41 pm

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Nicko
1/17/2017 10:12 pm
This is really killing my defensive gameplans....

Re: Rules not working properly?

By Sm0kE
4/07/2020 10:49 am
Location: Own 0 - Opp 0
Quarter: First Quarter, Second Quarter, Third Quarter, Fourth Quarter, Overtime
Time: 15:00 - 0:00
Score: Down 29+ - Up 29+


Just to make sure I'm not missing something...if down & distance is met (let's say, rule is for 2nd & 5 and thats the situation), this rule should always, all game, be applied with the above conditions, right?

Re: Rules not working properly?

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
4/07/2020 10:17 pm
Sm0kE wrote:
Location: Own 0 - Opp 0
Quarter: First Quarter, Second Quarter, Third Quarter, Fourth Quarter, Overtime
Time: 15:00 - 0:00
Score: Down 29+ - Up 29+


Just to make sure I'm not missing something...if down & distance is met (let's say, rule is for 2nd & 5 and thats the situation), this rule should always, all game, be applied with the above conditions, right?


Only if it's the first rule in your list. When the game searches for your rules for use in the game, it looks for the first rule covering that scenario.