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Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By setherick
8/19/2017 9:54 am
There have been a lot of grumblings about the passing game on the boards, so I thought I'd write up a quick dump of what I think I know of the short passing game. These are basically my steps to not make the passing game miserable to watch.

Why the short passing game? Because most of the time, really like >80% of the time, short passes are perfectly acceptable and even desirable to run. Short passes get the ball out quickly, typically get it to your best receiver, and let your receiver do the work. Medium and long passes are great, but if you don't need 10-15 yards, why target 10-15 yards.

QB and Receiver Logic
A must to understanding the short passing game is understanding basic QB and receiver logic. I'll not touch on any of the advanced things like hot reads or any of that and why INT is more important to QBs than Accuracy or why INT is more important to WRs than Catching (both of these seem to be true).

1) QBs wait until a receiver has finished a route to throw.
a) Memorize this. Say it 100 times. Write it on the bathroom mirror. Wake your spouse up in the middle of the night screaming it. Whisper it in your lover's ear...no, too much. … In all seriousness, this is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to remember about passing. You need to plan your passing plays around this concept. More on that below.

2) Receivers come back to the QB after finishing their route if their route has them run parallel to the LOS and they “touch” the sideline OR if their route has them turn back to the QB with some exceptions
a) Confused? Good. I'll use the route section below to explain.

Specific Routes Good and Bad

Hook/Curl vs Quick Hook
Let's jump right into confusing #2 above. What does it mean to come back to the QB?

A hook or curl route in this case has the receiver >5 yards past the LOS and then turn back to the QB for the pass. In this case, the receiver is going to hit logic number 2 and continue to run back to the QB, which will end the route usually at or behind the LOS for a negative yardage reception. The reason for this is QB logic #1. Verdict: DON'T USE HOOK ROUTES.

A quick hook has the receiver run <3 yards (remember the heart, do it) from the LOS and then turn back to the QB for the pass. Here's where things get wacky. Logic #2 dictates that the receiver should continue to the QB, but he's already at the LOS. So instead, the receiver holds positions and then turns upfield again. Since QB logic #1 says wait until the receiver is done running the route, the QB holds the ball until the receiver has turned back up field and then throws it to the streaking player. TE quick hooks destroy LBs for this reason. Verdict: USE THESE INSTEAD OF HOOKS.

The Drag Route
Receiver logic #2 also plays havoc with drag routes. Here's a good rule of thumb: if the drag goes to the middle of the field, it's OK to use. If the drag goes to the sideline, use caution.

Drag routes that go to the middle of the field are OK because receiver logic #2 doesn't come into play. Instead, the receiver runs across the middle of the field. Since QB logic #1 dictates the QB hold the ball, the receiver can usually hit the hole in the middle of the field between the DL and LBs for a nice 3-5 yard gain that he can sometimes bust open.

Drag routes that go to the sideline are interesting. I don't recommend them as the main route on a play, but as a secondary route they are OK. What happens is that the receiver runs to the end of his route and then turns around and runs back the other way because of receiver logic #2. The turnaround causes the receiver to slow to a crawl. For this reason, you don't want to use the 122 TE drag anymore. The play used to be good for 5-10 yards because the TE would run all the way to the sideline and be open for the pass. Now, the play is a drive killer because the TE turns around and runs smack into the trailing LB.

The only drag route to the sideline that is effective is the 113 slot receiver drag that runs under the flanker's slant route. On this play, the slot will run to the end of his route and turn around and then run under the slant route. VERDICT: USE SOME, NOT OTHERS

The Slant Route, the Awesome Route
Saving the best for (next to) last. The slant route is awesome simply because it does not suffer from receiver logic #2. Instead, the receiver continues running the same direction he was running when the slant route ended. Since QB logic #1, this means the 5 yard slant route is really a 7-10 yard passing play because of how the QB holds the ball. VERDICT: DOMINATE

Running Back Routes
Don't forget about short passing plays that target running backs. Running back routes don't suffer from receiver logic #2, so they will turn upfield when their routes end. This allows them to get big gaining passing plays from the backfield because of QB logic #1. The swing and wheel routes work particularly well. And, yes, it is possible to have 1000/1000 Marshall Faulk-type running backs if you use the right passing plays. VERDICT: DON'T FORGET

General Reminder
It's good to always remember that because of QB logic #1 that short passes are not really that “short.” Instead, the slant routes are really medium passes. If you're not emphasizing short passes, you're missing out on a lot of yardage opportunities.

For previous threads on passing, look for my more snarky Pass 90 thread.
Last edited at 8/19/2017 12:27 pm

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By setherick
8/26/2017 11:08 am
I wanted to update this thread with a quick post on two medium-to-long routes, and how those routes can break a defense in much the same way a slant route does.

Post Flags
You find the Post Flags in the 113 passing game, and it typically becomes a favorite of players that use it. I wasn't sure why until recently.

The WR spacing is off to run a proper flag, so he hits the edge of the sideline as soon as he makes his break. At this point his route has ended, so he cuts back to the middle of the field. QB logic 1 says to hold the ball until the receiver is done running the route, so the QB doesn't throw until the WR is free running into the middle of the field. The beauty of this is that DB don't typically follow or react to a free running WR.

Here's Ray shredding me with two of these plays:
1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/6915#1249468
2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/6915#1249529

Post Corner
You see the same result with the Post Corner out of the 113, but less frequently. The WR hits the sideline as soon as he makes his cut and then cuts back to the middle of the field while free running. I don't have an immediate example of this, but I have seen it happen in the game.

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By setherick
10/15/2017 2:17 pm
I'm bumping this thread back up because I ran across these explanations of the pass game that I had forgotten about.

setherick wrote:

If I understand the code flow for QBs correctly it goes like this:

The target is one best place to throw the ball, it is determined automatically and is the same for every player playing QB > FOV influences whether the QB sees it > Arm determines if the QB will throw it there > [some formula determines how long the QB takes to make the decision] > Release determines how quickly the QB takes to release the ball after the decision is made > Arm determines the velocity > the accuracy formula determines how close to the center of the target the ball arrives


jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
What attributes allow a QB to make a decision?


The WR runs the route, and when he gets to the point where he should receive the ball the QB makes a decision about whether he is open enough to throw to. FOV comes into play to decide whether he sees defenders in the area, but there are other pieces like experience that help him make a decision. If he decides to throw the ball, his release attribute determines how long it takes him to go from the decision to throw to the actual launch of the ball. If he decides it's not open enough, he will go to his next progression. The timing is driven mostly by the route.


They come from this thread, which is not that applicable to 0.4.2, but the comments about the code flow and passing are still good. (Although accuracy means more now.)

The accuracy formula referred to above can be found here: https://agent86.myfootballnow.com/community/1/2290?page=1#15119
Last edited at 10/15/2017 2:19 pm

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By Phareux
1/24/2018 6:16 pm
In the diagrams how do you tell a curl from a hook?

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By setherick
1/24/2018 6:27 pm
Phareux wrote:
In the diagrams how do you tell a curl from a hook?


Look at the distance the WR runs the route -- >5 yards (I think) is a curl.

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By Phareux
1/24/2018 6:37 pm
Okay, so then a hook would be >5 yards. thanks

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By punisher
1/24/2018 7:50 pm
setherick wrote:
Phareux wrote:
In the diagrams how do you tell a curl from a hook?


Look at the distance the WR runs the route -- >5 yards (I think) is a curl.


i think a curl is 8 or 12 yards if you go by one of these 2 links

1st = http://mentalfloss.com/article/70831/10-football-passing-routes-explained
curl route is the 6th route in that link

2nd = http://www.stack.com/a/route-tree
curl route is the 4th route in that link


also here is a google search for curl route if anyone wants to find it in case i didnt
here = https://www.google.com/search?ei=iyhpWvnqN-vWjwSGmZa4BQ&q=football+curl+route&oq=football+curl+r&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0j0i22i30k1.3148.3491.0.5166.2.2.0.0.0.0.115.210.1j1.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.209....0.gFV4yXXuTWU

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By raymattison21
1/24/2018 7:55 pm
Here as long as pattern is coming back in some fashion is what constitutes any one of these pattern names . Upon a quick look I saw 12 , 10, 8 and 4 yard patterns all being called either a hook, curl or dig.

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By setherick
1/24/2018 8:01 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
Here as long as pattern is coming back in some fashion is what constitutes any one of these pattern names . Upon a quick look I saw 12 , 10, 8 and 4 yard patterns all being called either a hook, curl or dig.


Basically, for this guide, a quick hook is <=3 yards. That basically means the WR is turning around at the LOS and then proceeding upfield.

It does matter that this guide will be irrelevant with the next release.

Re: Thoughts on Short Passing

By Hellbringer
3/10/2018 9:33 pm
How do you know what order the QB reads the routes. I would like to engage my stud TE more.