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Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By Chipped
12/09/2015 9:16 pm
In terms of attributes, you could consider something like the willingness to play ST, which determines the effort a player puts into ST and can decrease or increase attributes like speed/tackling specifically for ST positions.

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By WarEagle
12/10/2015 7:29 am
While I agree there are a lot of punt return TDs, I think a lot (or most) of this has to do with who you have playing on your special teams units.

From my experience, I know that if I let the AI set my depth chart, there will be DTs as gunners. LBs as blockers, etc. I don't want a DT running downfield trying to chase and tackle a punt returner.

I went back and looked at all my team's games for the leagues I am in that are currently in season.

For all leagues combined (42 games) I have a total of 31 punt return TDs. However, in those same games I have given up a total of 1 punt return TD.

My opinion is that those who choose to ignore this aspect of the game will suffer the consequences. Those that don't can deal with it pretty well.


Last edited at 12/10/2015 7:29 am

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By mrfakename
12/10/2015 11:37 am
WarEagle wrote:
While I agree there are a lot of punt return TDs, I think a lot (or most) of this has to do with who you have playing on your special teams units.

From my experience, I know that if I let the AI set my depth chart, there will be DTs as gunners. LBs as blockers, etc. I don't want a DT running downfield trying to chase and tackle a punt returner.

I went back and looked at all my team's games for the leagues I am in that are currently in season.

For all leagues combined (42 games) I have a total of 31 punt return TDs. However, in those same games I have given up a total of 1 punt return TD.

My opinion is that those who choose to ignore this aspect of the game will suffer the consequences. Those that don't can deal with it pretty well.


i agree completly. This has been an issue for me for a while. But i bet you play starters on special teams. The nfl continues to limit the value of STs. We should do the same. It should not be so hard to stop a punt returner. Have your punter kick away from the return guy. Simple. Here a 83 punter will have a really poor net average when compared to a 99 punter. Maybe accuracy makes a difference. Gunners speed matters most like it should but experience matters too much. Its really is a mess but there alot to look at for reasons why. But i took a second round punter to counter this.
Last edited at 12/10/2015 11:38 am

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By Morbid
12/10/2015 1:35 pm
My ST are mainly my backups even as return men

Gunners I use LB's. CB's and Safeties
Blockers are FB,TE and O-Linemen
Rushers are DE, Dt and LB's

Works ok for me

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By Nicko
12/10/2015 2:36 pm
I think in the "Misc options" tab in the gameplan we should have an option for our punter.

Maybe an option to kick normally as they do now, and another option to try to avoid kicking to the returner by kicking it into the end zone or out of bounds(like teams would do to Devin Hester in his prime). It would result in a little worse field position sometimes, but if there's a great returner we should have another option to gameplan against them other than putting our defensive starters on punt returns.

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/10/2015 8:13 pm
Nicko wrote:
I think in the "Misc options" tab in the gameplan we should have an option for our punter.

Maybe an option to kick normally as they do now, and another option to try to avoid kicking to the returner by kicking it into the end zone or out of bounds(like teams would do to Devin Hester in his prime). It would result in a little worse field position sometimes, but if there's a great returner we should have another option to gameplan against them other than putting our defensive starters on punt returns.


There are a lot of items like this that I'd like to do with special teams to give you more control over what is happening.

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By jsid
12/11/2015 1:39 am
I think that the issue here is pathing. Here's what it looks like the paths are to me:



Right now, the gunners contain, which is good, but no one else holds their lanes. The wings drop in to max protect, worried that they'll give up the first punt block in MFN history, and the Personal Protector sits back there, essentially just another blocker except 10 yards behind the action to start. Including the punter, that's 4 players every punt that are not legitimate threats to make a tackle before a 25 yard return. That leaves the 5 blockers going down the middle. And when I say go down the middle, I mean they all form a clump and go down the middle together. This is the biggest issue, as the only threats are the gunners and the fastest blocker the get down the field. The other four are redundant because they're all taking away the same lane.



So really, the returner just has to get past the initial contain and not run in to the first blocker and then all he has to beat is the punter. Here is the punt I was drawing from, where the returner is tackled by a blocker who gets pancaked:
http://cust17.myfootballnow.com/watch/1320#251188

Compare that to the big NFL clip of the week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0bRlG80EYk. The Cowboys had really good coverage on this punt, but notice at 8-11 seconds in, nobody is running directly at DJax.



They're still are running straight down the field in their lanes. Notice at 16 seconds in, when he gets around the initial contain, there's still nowhere to go because the 'Boys again hold their lanes on what was the weak side of the field.

Here's how I propose coverage gets adjusted:
1) Wings give up on blocking, let the PP handle any threats from outside rushers.
2) PP becomes a safety after blocking, focusing on contain.
3) Blockers fill lanes instead of trying to run at the returner, then trying to take an angle once the returner picks a side:

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/11/2015 8:09 am
Those paths were adjusted with the 0.3.2 game engine so they stay in their lanes longer than they did previously. Was your study in the 0.3.2 engine?

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By jsid
12/11/2015 8:43 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Those paths were adjusted with the 0.3.2 game engine so they stay in their lanes longer than they did previously. Was your study in the 0.3.2 engine?


Cust17 a few days ago, so no?

Re: Punt Return Yards Gone Mad

By Nicko
12/11/2015 9:33 am
jdavidbakr wrote:

There are a lot of items like this that I'd like to do with special teams to give you more control over what is happening.


Ok, sounds good.

Also. great analysis jsid.