The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - General MFN Discussion

Penalty Enforcement Question

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
9/17/2022 4:09 am
I have a penalty/rules question and I'm too tired from a 10 hour work shift to interpret legalese into English. Here is the situation...

https://mfn74.myfootballnow.com/watch/10054#1769762

I'm on defense, opponent has a 3rd and 10 on their own 43 when a penalty pops up on the screen while the pass is in the air, holding on the offense. I intercept the ball and my guy returns it 25 yards, then fumbles. My opponent recovers the fumble on their own 20 yard line. They are then penalized 10 yards and now have a 3rd and 43 from the 10.

Is that correct?

I thought penalties were marked from the spot of the foul, which would have been around the original line of scrimmage, my opponent's 43. Instead the penalty is enforced from the spot of the fumble recovery.

I get why my opponent has the ball and is replaying 3rd down, I was just surprised they got backed up so far.

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
9/17/2022 4:12 am
Here is what I was trying to read to figure out the RL rule

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/17_Rule14_Penalty_Enforcement.pdf

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raymattison21
9/17/2022 2:28 pm
“They are then penalized 10 yards and now have a 3rd and 43 from the 10”

This part is wrong in terms of AI logic. I would have declined and went right to 4th down

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
9/17/2022 2:42 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
“They are then penalized 10 yards and now have a 3rd and 43 from the 10”

This part is wrong in terms of AI logic. I would have declined and went right to 4th down



One part I did understand this morning is if this penalty is declined irl, my opponent would have a 1st and 10 from where they recovered the fumble. That makes sense because declining the penalty means the play stands as is, which is INT, fumble on the return, they get the ball 1st and 10 due to 2 changes of possession.

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raymattison21
9/18/2022 2:08 pm
A.R. 14.3

SCENARIO:
Second-and-10 on A30. Team A is offside. A legal forward pass is intercepted by defensive B1 on the 50. B1 runs to the A40, fumbles, and A2 recovers there.

Ruling:
A’s ball second-and-15 on A25. (If Team B refused the penalty, it would have been A’s ball first-and-10 on A40).

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raymattison21
9/18/2022 2:14 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
A.R. 14.3

SCENARIO:
Second-and-10 on A30. Team A is offside. A legal forward pass is intercepted by defensive B1 on the 50. B1 runs to the A40, fumbles, and A2 recovers there.

Ruling:
A’s ball second-and-15 on A25. (If Team B refused the penalty, it would have been A’s ball first-and-10 on A40).



Based on this rule your situation would be holding accepted and a 3rd and whatever that holding penalty would apply OR a fresh set of downs but the offense is backed up to where the fumble recovery took place. But again this is only an interpretation of a lot of rules/scenarios

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By RightAngleToReality
9/20/2022 12:48 pm
If you take the penalty it would be 3rd and 20 from the 33. If you decline it's first and ten from wherever the fumble recovery happened...

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By raidergreg69 - League Admin
9/20/2022 12:57 pm
RightAngleToReality wrote:
If you take the penalty it would be 3rd and 20 from the 33. If you decline it's first and ten from wherever the fumble recovery happened...


That's what I was thinking it should be but they gave my opponent the ball at the 10.

Re: Penalty Enforcement Question

By jackals
9/22/2022 8:37 pm
The game engine is definitely wrong here, and a lot of the answers are faulty.

Offensive holding penalties during a passing play(a) are enforced from the previous spot (b)(c) AKA previous line of scrimmage. Enforcement of the penalty effectively negates both turnovers. Accepting the penalty should have resulted in 3rd and 20 from the opponent 33. Declining the penalty would result in 1st and 10 from the opponent 20.

As for which is better, the answer is reliant on my evaluation of your opponent's offense vs. your defense, although given an average offense and average defense, my recommendation would be to accept the penalty.

NFL Rule Book References:

(a) 14-4-5: If there is a foul by either team from the time of the snap until a forward pass thrown from behind the line ends, the penalty is enforced from the previous spot. A pass play ends and a running play begins at the instant that a pass is caught.

(b) 14-3-4-a: The Previous Spot: The spot at which the ball was last put in play

(c) 14-3-6-c-1: Fouls committed by the offense behind the line of scrimmage, except for fouls committed in the end zone, are enforced from the previous spot.