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Main - General MFN Discussion

Default Player Weights

By WarEagle
11/01/2016 8:24 pm
I have a question for JDB.

Have the default player weights (both coach defaults and Ai defaults) been adjusted to reflect the new importance for certain attributes?

Such as speed instead of run/pass block for OT, speed/scramble instead of accuracy for QB, etc.

Thanks

Re: Default Player Weights

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/01/2016 8:53 pm
Yes, the OT speed has been updated on the default weights. The QB scramble/accuracy balance has not been changed, if anything previously the scramble skill was weighed too heavily. I don't agree that scramble is more important than accuracy by the statistics but am actually working on a comprehensive test suite that will help me refine the impact of each attribute and eventually ensure that the attributes we expect to be the most important are indeed the most important.

Re: Default Player Weights

By setherick
11/01/2016 9:31 pm
#automatedtestingftw

Also,

If we assume the current pass blocking paradigm where SP is an ultimate determiner for who wins in pass rush vs pass block, and

if we assume that physical weight does not hinder the pass rusher nor aid the pass blocker, and

if we assume that most offensive lineman will not have enough SP to block most DEs of equal physical weight, and definitely will not have enough SP to block DEs that are underweight, and

if we assume that this pass blocking paradigm means that QBs will be under constant pressure and forced to throw on the run as a common means of escaping a sack,

then brute math still suggests (I'm not exactly sure how big the on the move penalty is) that a QB with high Scramble and average Accuracy is more functionally accurate than a QB with 100 Accuracy and low Scramble because the Scramble will negate one of the negative modifiers that impacts accuracy. That means a high Scramble QB will only face the under pressure penalty and the distance penalty.

Fast QBs are a must as much now, if not more so, because it will take at least 6 calendar months for teams in all leagues to develop OLs that combat fast DEs with good pass rush. If you're QBs running for his life, he might as well do it as fast as possible. Maybe he'll be able to get up field.

In sum, MFN Michael Vick > MFN Jake Plummer > MFN Peyton Manning
Last edited at 11/01/2016 10:58 pm

Re: Default Player Weights

By WarEagle
11/04/2016 6:05 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Yes, the OT speed has been updated on the default weights. The QB scramble/accuracy balance has not been changed, if anything previously the scramble skill was weighed too heavily. I don't agree that scramble is more important than accuracy by the statistics but am actually working on a comprehensive test suite that will help me refine the impact of each attribute and eventually ensure that the attributes we expect to be the most important are indeed the most important.


This does not appear to be correct.

I just loaded the "recommended" weights in CUST-10.

For LT speed and acceleration are both at 10, while pass blocking and strength are both at 100.

Also, speed and acceleration are both at 0 for LG/RG/C.
Last edited at 11/04/2016 6:06 am

Re: Default Player Weights

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/04/2016 8:51 am
WarEagle wrote:
Also, speed and acceleration are both at 0 for LG/RG/C.


Speed only impacts exterior linemen.

Re: Default Player Weights

By lellow2011
11/04/2016 8:53 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
Also, speed and acceleration are both at 0 for LG/RG/C.


Speed only impacts exterior linemen.


Aren't there some plays where the Guard pulls? Wouldn't speed have an effect on those plays, also in the new sim I'm seeing a lot of fast DTs really start to pull in some very high sack numbers that they were previously not hitting. Seems to me that speed may be having an effect on these numbers.
Last edited at 11/04/2016 8:53 am

Re: Default Player Weights

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/04/2016 8:55 am
lellow2011 wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
Also, speed and acceleration are both at 0 for LG/RG/C.


Speed only impacts exterior linemen.


Aren't there some plays where the Guard pulls? Wouldn't speed have an effect on those plays, also in the new sim I'm seeing a lot of fast DTs really start to pull in some very high sack numbers that they were previously not hitting. Seems to me that speed may be having an effect on these numbers.


This is true, yes, if you do a lot of those types of plays you might want to add speed to your guard's attributes. My comment is referring to the speed rush update that was recently released, which has made speed and acceleration more important for the tackles.

Re: Default Player Weights

By WarEagle
11/04/2016 2:00 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
lellow2011 wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
Also, speed and acceleration are both at 0 for LG/RG/C.


Speed only impacts exterior linemen.


Aren't there some plays where the Guard pulls? Wouldn't speed have an effect on those plays, also in the new sim I'm seeing a lot of fast DTs really start to pull in some very high sack numbers that they were previously not hitting. Seems to me that speed may be having an effect on these numbers.


This is true, yes, if you do a lot of those types of plays you might want to add speed to your guard's attributes. My comment is referring to the speed rush update that was recently released, which has made speed and acceleration more important for the tackles.


I'm not sure I believe it doesn't matter for interior lineman. Maybe not as much as tackles of course, but it seems to matter. Or maybe the DTs have been jacked up.

That's the only thing that explains why my centers are suddenly allowing double or triple the amount of sacks as they ever have.


Also, what about the default weights for the tackles?

Is a weight of 10 what you meant when you said the new importance of speed is now being reflected in the weights? If so, I think you are seriously underestimating the impact this change has made in the effectiveness of tackles.

Re: Default Player Weights

By setherick
11/04/2016 2:18 pm
SP probably doesn't matter inside if you are only considering how DTs are generated. In that case, both the OL and DL will have comparable SP attributes. However, most people who want to get a lot of sacks out of their DTs move DEs to the spot (and then move CBs to the DE spot). Until JDB gets his test bench completed though, it'll be hard to tell what is causing what.
Last edited at 11/04/2016 2:19 pm

Re: Default Player Weights

By WarEagle
11/10/2016 9:58 am
I still don't think the default player weights are taking the new skill requirements into consideration.

For example, when I load the "recommended" weights I am showing QBs have a weight of:

Acceleration: 1
Speed: 1
Scrambling: 40
Accuracy: 100
Intelligence: 100
Arm: 100
Release: 100
Look Off: 100
FOV: 100

There is no way Look Off should be 2.5 times more important than scramble based on the current code, etc., etc.

LT/RT
Speed: 10
Accel: 10
Strength: 100
Pass Blocking: 100

I am pretty sure you (JDB) have said that speed/acceleration is now much more important for tackles. A weight of 10 for each does not indicate these skills are considered important at all.


Last edited at 11/10/2016 9:58 am